Pictured Above: Public Employees Federation (PEF) President Kenneth Brynien (left) is interviewed by WNYLaborToday.com Editor/Publisher Tom Campbell during a recent stop in Buffalo.  During a wide-ranging interview, the PEF president says New York needs to seriously look at a number of cost-cutting areas that have already been recommended to Governor David Paterson by the second-largest Public Employees Union in the State - including the skyrocketing, exorbitant and expensive use of outside and temporary consultants.  (WNYLaborToday.com Photo)

Editor's Note: WNYLaborToday.com will post a three-part, Labor Video News conversation with PEF President Kenneth Brynien in the WNY Labor News Video Cube Section on our Front Page, which appears second from the left in our bank of video cubes.

(BUFFALO) - New York State is paying outside consultants seven times what it would be paying state-employed Department of Transportation engineers on a highway project in Albany, which the president of the Public Employees Federation (PEF) tells WNYLaborToday.com is yet another example of what Governor David Paterson should be looking to cut instead of targeting, attacking and singling out Union-Represented State Workers for wage concessions.

During a recent and nearly one-hour interview with WNYLaborToday.com, Brynien - who heads the second-largest Public Employees Union in New York with nearly 60,000 members, which also happens to be one of the largest white-collar Unions in the United States - discussed a number of topics and issues regarding the state's current budget crisis and the positive role State Employee Unions can play if allowed to by New York State Government.

"(PEF Members) traded pensions for lower salaries and a commitment to public service and we do it to the best of our ability.  But there are times when we can't because of management and government policy.  We're not given the resources to adequately do what we need to do, but we do the best we can.  What we're really asking for is the state to help us do our job better," Brynien said.  "We want to be partners.  Many of our members have been around for twenty to thirty years.  They're some of the best educated people in this state - engineers, accountants, judges and lawyers - people who help develop policy.  We know how to save money and make it work better.  All (New York State has) to do is ask us.  They tell us that's management's role and that we're (just) the workers.  (But) We have a responsibility to point out waste and make the state become a better place - but it will only work if we're treated as partners and not just as 'tools' to be used of and deposed of when we're no longer needed."

Case in point - Brynien spoke about New York clamping down on worker overtime to save money and a certain road construction project in Albany where, he said, outside consultants/engineers are being paid seven times what state employees would be paid to perform the same job.

"The State uses excessive amounts (of OT) and has tried to rein it in to help save hundreds of millions of dollars.  But the Department of Transportation has a project going on in Albany (on Route 87 at Exit 6).  They're redoing the exit ramps to relieve congestion.  It's a good project and local crews are doing the work.  You need a couple of state engineers inspecting and overseeing the project.  (The state employees) work five days a week and there's no (approved) OT.  There's another company that comes in and oversees the project on the weekend.  We looked at numbers and its costing seven times the amount (to pay those consultants versus state workers).  The DOT spent taxpayer money for a study to determine if contracting out costs more and then they refused to release results of the study.  We had to get it through a Freedom of Information request and it said same thing - consulting costs more.  The state is cutting overtime, but not saving money.  That's always been the problem.  You lay off workers and there are fewer employees, but higher costs.  It makes no sense," he said.

The problem is, Brynien adds, is that New York State is "addicted" to contracting out workers.

"It hurts the economy, takes away valuable taxpayer money and throws it away on high-priced individuals that you don't need.  Why?  Sometimes it's easier and they don't have to manage people.  It eases the workload.  Other times it's to do business with some of these companies that (managers) would like to go to work for after they retire.  It (establishes a) connection and periodically you'll hear about a trial because someone has contracted with relative.  It happened in Syracuse with the state Office of Mental Retardation where winning (state) bids were awarded to relatives.  It's a host of bad reasons," he said.

For the past several weeks, both the Assembly and Senate have been forced by the governor to vote on weekly extenders under the threat of shutting New York State government down.  Despite the doom and gloom, what remains a constant is the state is continuing to waste taxpayer dollars, Brynien said.

"We're not the only Union to claim that.  We're saying, take a fair look at money wasted and try to curb some of that waste.  We talk about it more frequently because what impacts our membership is the waste with outside consultants - in engineering, auditing, inspections or informational technologies services.  If you use a state worker to do the job, they have a relatively competitive price and provide good service over their entire career.  When you go outside to save money, what you're actually doing is paying as high as triple the price to get someone in to do the same work.  Over a period of time, there's no loyalty to the state, only loyalty to their company.  (Over time,) They get transferred out and someone else is brought in to continue the work.  The contract gets renegotiated and the company comes in.  What we have found is there are hundreds of millions of dollars to be saved.  If you stop contracting it out and hire more state employees at half the price that's far more cost effective," Brynien said. 

In mid January, WNYLaborToday.com published a story on a PEF research study that revealed New York could save $656 million by implementing the Union's recommendations - which zeroed in on the state spending $2.9 billion on outside consultants.

"We're trying to get the word out, but the state pokes fun at it.  Recently, the governor's PR director said our arguments were just 'air' and the savings really aren't there.  It's a fight between common sense and rhetoric.  The governor says he wants savings from the state's workforce - around two-hundred-and-fifty-million dollars.  In my mind, the workforce means everyone who works for the state - two-hundred-thousand state employees and one-hundred-thousand consultants.  If you reduce the use of consultants, you save far more money," Brynien said.

With so many positive examples of "management" and Labor working together across New York State - including the United Auto Workers and General Motors right here in Western New York - WNYLaborToday.com asked the PEF president why the governor isn't choosing to work with New York's Unions and its leadership.

"At times it's hard to explain why.  But we think we've made some progress working with the legislature on a bill that we're calling 'Cost Benefit Analysis' legislation.  The state can contract out consultants, but before they didn't they have to demonstrate its cost-effectiveness.  (With such legislation, New York would) Have to prove that hiring 'short-time' employees is cheaper.  If certain short-term expertise is needed, they can contract it out, but prove that's the case.  The Division of Budget put a cap on how many people (a state department) can hire.  Even though a contract (may call) for twice the salary, they say they haven't hired any new employees - they've contracted it out.  It's crazy.  Everybody points the finger at everybody," Brynien said.

Asked how frustrating it's been to sit down with the governor, who listens - but still takes the tack of wanting concessions from the state's Unions - Brynien responded: "It's very frustrating when you don't know what's going to happen day to day.  A lot of statements have been made involving Union contracts that's been very hurtful.  One is we're not state workers because we're Union Leaders!  Of course we are. Another is the Unions don't care if people get laid off because they don't vote in Union elections.  That's crazy."

As a result, the state's Unionized employees have had a bulls-eye painted on their backs, which also leaves PEF frustrated, Brynien said.  "There's frustration coming out of the governor's office because the legislature is not going along with his ideas.  (Paterson) threatens us because he believes we'll go to the legislature (and put pressure on state lawmakers) to get what 'he' wants.  What we're saying is, don't hurt state employees in process.  We're taxpayers too.  (We suffer too if you) close the parks and we wind up paying more taxes on soda and cigarettes.  So why attack our salaries too?"

The bedlam brought about by the state budget deficit also has Organized Labor taking a closer look at the individual elected officials it endorses and supports.  For example, many Unions - including PEF - are reconsidering the way they will approach endorsements and make monetary donations in preparation for the upcoming election season.

"We're taking a closer look at what individuals say and do.  The leadership (the so-called "three men in a room") makes the decisions and most of the other (state elected officials) don't have a lot of influence.  And just going along and endorsing them again, I don't think that's going to work.  We're expecting people to stand up for what's right.  In a twenty-seven-page decision offered by (Northern District U.S. District Court Judge Lawrence Kahn), the judge ruled on the (governor's call to) furlough state workers that if there were other (budget cut options the state could pursue) that didn't hurt people, those options must be explored first, because they do hurt people.  That's why the furloughs were thrown out.  We're going to look at every legislator and see where they stand on these kinds of issues.  Are you really trying to fix the problems?  Are you really trying 'not' to hurt people?  Or are you jumping to conclusion that well it's easier to hurt public employees because they don't matter?  Some legislators have stood up and said the laying off/furloughing of people is wrong - that there are places where we 'can' cut waste.  Other legislators say public employees are getting too much and it's time that (state workers) cut back.  A vast majority of others have been quiet.  I think this is the year we're actually going to look at what people say and do and some people we will endorse and (in other cases, we'll) endorse someone else.  To those others, we'll say, 'You left us out there alone and we're going to leave you out there alone this year.'  It's our job to motivate our people this year and we'll educate them on what (elected officials have) said and done on our behalf."

Asked what he might directly say about PEF and the membership it represents to New York taxpayers - who are fed up with what's gone on in Albany over the past 80-plus days regarding the back-and-forth, tug of war between the governor and members of the Assembly and Senate as the state continues to operate without a budget - if he had the chance, Brynien replied: "Our members are the professionals that make sure New York operates the way it should every day.  We help keep people safe.  We patrol your streets.  We're your medical teams.  We inspect the water you drink and air you breathe.  We make sure the food you eat is safe.  We take care of your parks and we help people find work.  We do everything that's needed."